chuckles48 - A comparison on the McCain/Clark thing

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30 June 2008 @ 03:34 pm

A comparison on the McCain/Clark thing

I think it's instructive to look at Wesley Clark and John McCain's service records, side by side.

	Wesley Clark	John McCain
College	West Point/USMA	Annapolis/USNA
1st post commissioning assignment	Airborne School, then Rhodes Scholarship at Oxford	Flight School
	Armor Officer Basic School, then Ranger School, then promoted to Captain, CO, A/4/68th Armor, 82n Abn	Assigned to various VA squadrons (A-1 Skyraider) (USS Intrepid, USS Enterprise, Atlantic)
	Staff officer, 1st Infantry Div. Vietnam (Bronze Star)	VA squadron (A-4 Skyhawk) (USS Forrestal, Vietnam)(Dec 1966)
	Reassigned as CO, A/1/16th Infantry (1ID). After one month, shot four times (Silver Star). Reassigned to Valley Forge Hospital	Injured during Forrestal fire. Reassigned to USS Oriskany (A-4 Skyhawk)
	CO, C/6/32nd Armor (wounded troop formation). Armor Officer Advanced Course. Office of Army Chief of Staff/Modern Volunteer Army program. Social Studies instructor, West Point.	Captured during 23rd bombing mission over N. Vietnam (Oct. 1967). Held prisoner for 5 1/2 years, enduring multiple weekly torture sessions
	White House Fellow, OMB. CO, 3/35th Armored, 3rd Bde/1AD. Special Assistant, SACEUR. XO/1st Bde, 4ID. CO, 1/77th Armored. National War College.	Assorted military hospitals for treatment of wounds. National War College. Reinstated to flight status.
	Offices of the Chief of Staff/Deputy Chief of Staff, US Army. Operations Group CO, Ft. Irwin. CO, 3rd Bde/4ID.	CO, VT (Pensacola NAS). Navy Liaison to the Senate. Retired, Captain, USN, 1981
	Command and General Staff College, BCTP program director(?). CO, Ft. Irwin/NTC (during run-up to 1st Gulf War).
	Deputy CoS, TRADOC
	CO, 1st Cavalry Division (note - Waco siege occured during this period).
	Director, J-5 (Strategic Plans and Policy), JCS
	CO, USSOUTHCOM (Southern Command)
	CO, USEUCOM (European Command) (Kosovo War). Retired early.

So, bottom line, Clark's got one month "combat time", McCain's got 10 months, plus 5 1/2 years as a POW (which counts as "combat zone" time, AFAIK). Clark's ONLY combat commands of any sort between his commissioning and his retirement are (a) one month as an infantry company commander in Vietnam, and (b) his generalship off the Kosovo War.

UPDATE:
I forgot to note that John Kerry's 3 months as CO of a swift boat were considered "sufficient" combat command experience.

12 comments | Leave a comment

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rodney_g_graves on June 30th, 2008 11:13 pm (UTC)
Resume's

Clark reads as the very model of the modern poli-general.

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lwj2 on July 1st, 2008 12:11 am (UTC)
Re: Resume's

I was thinking the same thoughts, Rod. Ticket-puncher.

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chuckles48 on July 1st, 2008 01:20 am (UTC)
Re: Resume's

One problem with that. Why did he go through that succession of battalion and brigade command positions (including going from BN to Bde in 1AD, then bumping back to BN once he got stateside)?

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(Anonymous) on July 1st, 2008 01:18 am (UTC)
Re: Resume's

And yet, from all accounts he's an excellent troop trainer.

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rodney_g_graves on July 1st, 2008 04:11 am (UTC)
Re: Resume's

So was McClellan.

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house_pundit on July 1st, 2008 01:04 am (UTC)

The first thing it makes me wonder is whether he climbed the ladder stabbing people in the back in petty ways. People tend to behave true to type. This incident may be grossly out of character for him, but he hasn't fallen all over himself apologizing and saying, "What the hell was I thinking?"

That strongly suggests that this kind of carping is exactly Wesley Clark's character. WPPA, anyone?

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chuckles48 on July 1st, 2008 01:22 am (UTC)

From what I could tell, not so much stabbing them in the back as pissing them off. It looks like Welsey Clark is like opera - you either love him or you hate him.

Which I have personal experience with. But, given Clark's demonstrable combat experience, he's really in no position to be bitching about McCain on that front.

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lonewolf545 on July 1st, 2008 02:15 am (UTC)

Let's not forget that he was the first, and as far as I know only, officer ever relieved of a NATO command for cause. That cause was damned near starting a war with Russia, and alienating our allies.

And the BATF training at Ft. Hood for the Waco raid occurred on his watch.

It looks like he completely skipped over being a platoon leader or company XO, which is unusual.

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chuckles48 on July 1st, 2008 02:42 am (UTC)

Well, properly speaking he wasn't relieved for cause. He was asked to retire, early.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Retirement

Note Hugh Shelton's comments.

And yes, I noticed that he went straight from USMA, to schools, to a company command as a Captain. In a line armor company. You'll notice that his sole combat command is in an _infantry_ company. Leg infantry, even.

The more I think about it, the more ticket-punching I see.

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chuckles48 on July 1st, 2008 02:47 am (UTC)

Note that the infantry command is just enough for him to earn a CIB.

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dancingguy on July 3rd, 2008 09:57 am (UTC)

Reassigned as CO, A/1/16th Infantry (1ID). After one month, shot four times (Silver Star). Reassigned to Valley Forge Hospital

WTF? Four times?

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chuckles48 on July 3rd, 2008 05:57 pm (UTC)

Took four rounds. One guy, one AK.

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